Roxanne: Okay, so first the first question. What is your experience of being a Jew in London? And how large is the Jewish community there?

Rabbi Wineberg: Okay, so London's community, they say, is about 250,000 - 300,000 Jews and being a Jew in London is great. There's a strong asset, a majority of the Jewish community of England lives in London. So there's lots of options wherever you go, you're gonna bump into Jewish people. And, yeah, very blessed.

Roxanne: Yeah. Okay. Have you felt a change in attitudes about Jewish people in your community since the start of the war?

Rabbi Wineberg: So from within the community, definitely. People definitely have shifted in their mindset, as you're asking from the Jewish people, what's people?

Roxanne: Yeah, yeah.

Rabbi Wineberg: So definitely, there's been a change in people's mindsets. Okay, so, to answer this question, there has been a definite change in attitude. I would say people are definitely concerned. And they're firstly worried for Israel. And they're also worried about some things that they're seeing going on in the UK. Which, whether there's major major rallies and protests, which are the big numbers that if you've been following any of that, like hundreds of thousands of people show up, and not such nice things being said at those rallies, like chants of jihad or river to the sea, and things like that, which are very concerning for, for people and then there's been also like, some, actual incidents of people being attacked.

Roxanne: In your community?

Rabbi Wineberg: No, just in general, Now, within our community, the effects attitudes, definitely, in general. And what I've noticed is that the economy splits into two. So some people that nervousness leads them to kind of hunker down and to be more quiet about their Jewishness. And to be more wary, even considering maybe even leaving the UK. I know some people who are leaving the UK or have left the UK as a result.

Roxanne: Oh, wow.

Rabbi Wineberg: Yeah. We're very worried about where things are going. And so I know a family moving out to Italy. And they say it's much better there. And a big part of some people making Aliyah.

Roxanne: And do they still belong to a jewish community in Italy?

Rabbi Wineberg: Yeah, very much. So it's important for them to be involved in the community, but they just feel like after the attacks they're not comfortable here in England anymore.

Roxanne: Interesting.

Rabbi Wineberg: So there's definitely some people who like, especially right off of the attacks that were very worried about me and our family. “Rabbi, You must cover your kippa when you're walking in the street, you have to be very careful.” And that's definitely been one kind of stream of, of attitude. And I'd say another stream of attitude has been very different. So let me explain to you the second one, the second one is also concerned. But in a certain sense, coming back in instead of like lying low. It's kind of bringing up a fight when people see you finding some people who are on social media being extreme vocal when they've never been vocal about anything about their Jewishness, about Israel. And they're making that their thought. And there's some people who, a couple who grew up in the UK, both of them are Jewish, they actually, let me go back, I met the woman first. And she was very bothered by the attacks, she wanted to meet and chat. She lives in the area, she's never done anything Jewish. And the attacks have really woken her up to saying, Hey, this is my identity, it has to be meaningful to me. I want to be more Jewish. And about a month after we met, her boyfriend and her came to me for Shabbos. And we had a Friday night together. And then about a month after that, it was Hanukkah and she comes over and she shows me her engagement ring, “we're engaged.” So that's incredible. So special, mazel tov. And she said, “we want to meet, we want to have a Jewish wedding.” And she said, “You know what the truth is, before the attacks, there was no way in the world we would have ever been interested in having a Jewish wedding. It meant nothing to us, like our Jewish identity. But now we want to have a good one.”

Roxanne: Oh, wow, that's really interesting.

Rabbi Wineberg: And if you ask me, like, where are more, do I see more people on the one side or the other side. It's interesting, like, on the same day, I spoke to two people, one person told me, you know, because of the attacks, they brought the Mezuzah on inside. The same day, I was speaking to someone else who told me he never had one on his door, but because of the attacks, he has to have a Mezuzah on his door, and he's put up one. So since before that he never had a Mezuzah. You see how the two are the same situation, but people are taking it differently. Especially on the Mezuzah front, I found a lot more Jews, and that at least I'm in touch with and have communicated like, have put up Mezuzahs than have removed their Mezuzahs. Which I think is a real testament of Jewish strength. And us saying basically, nothing's gonna, if anything, you're attacking us, you're gonna make us more proud of our heritage, you're gonna make us more proud of our identity.

Roxanne: Yeah I mean I’ve been wearing my necklace with my hebrew name on it everyday.

Rabbi Wineberg: Awesome! So like, it's like what they say in Egypt. The pharaoh the more he oppressed the Jews, the more they they expanded, and the more they were successful. And in a certain sense, that's been the story of the Jewish people, you know? We don't, hope for oppression and we pray to Hashem that we should never have to suffer. But when stuff has come harder to us we've only come back double as strong. So Jews are being Jewish, I would say today in the most incredible way in London than ever before. And I was just at a bowling alley and I bumped into israelis. And I happened to have my tefillin with me. And I said, guys, you know, since their attack, I always carry my tefillin with me in case I meet another Jew, The tefillin is a mitzvah connected with the protection of the Jewish people. You guys, what do you say about putting on tefillin the guy said, “I haven't done it in who knows how long. But you know what? We need to put on tefillin” and in the middle of a bowling alley we wrapped tefillin.

Roxanne: Oh, yeah. That's great. Yeah, one time, we were on vacation, we were on the beach and the Chabad found us on the beach. And they asked my dad and his brother to wrap tefillin and so they wrapped tefillin on the beach. And it was so nice.

Rabbi Shneur: Yeah. So there's definitely a sense that Jews are being more Jewish, more proud of their identity, more concerned and in touch with their identity and realizing that it's something that's so deep in them and so profound and meaningful for them. So in some ways, it's like something that I want to do more about, I want to, but there is concern, don't get me wrong. There's a lot of concern. People are nervous, obviously, with time things have kind of, you know, calm down a little bit. And thank God, I think there is, but there's this whole lot of stuff going on around the London thing, or in our area, not so much. But around London, there's still stuff going on. Definitely.

Roxanne: Okay, so, the next question, have you been directly affected by anti semitism in the wake of events on October 7? And also before then?

Rabbi Shneur: No, thank God not. And I'm pretty visibly Jewish. And definitely people ask me this question. Have I, you know, I was actually, you know, when people were asking me to walk with a, with my cap, or I shouldn't look so Jewish in the streets after the attack, I was a little bit wary of doing that. Because it's very easy for you to create an atmosphere of fear, especially when community leaders are like saying, Oh, we cant walk with a keepa anymore. And the next thing, it's very easy for that to like, Okay, so now everyone feels like, oh, Rabbi is not walking in his keepa and then we have to not, You know, there was an awareness that, as community leaders, we have to I felt that we have to definitely be safe and be responsible. So we're constantly checking with the guidance of the local security and community security trust, which advises in the UK on security situations for the Jewish community, but at the same time I wasn't hiding anything. You know, I'm saying. And zero, absolutely nothing. If anything, I've had some people randomly coming over to me and say, you should just know that we're with Israel, and we're so proud of that.

Roxanne: That's so nice

Rabbi Shneur: Right? So we've had that that was someone who was driving, I was walking back from synagogue from shul on Shabbos, and maybe once or maybe twice. Free Palestine. I did get that once or twice since the attacks, but otherwise, nothing beyond that at all. And before October 7. Also, zero, you know, you get the stereotypical anti semitism, where the guy's like, “Oh, so you're rich. So you should you know, you're Jewish. So you probably you don't want the discounted one you want the more expensive one,” you know what I mean, like in a shop, but that's just people kind of stereotyping what they understand us to be. All Jews are rich and all that kind of stuff. But obviously, that yeah, that's, that exists out there. But thank God, otherwise, really, when I tell people that we haven't experienced anti semitism are surprised in a way. You want to get something interesting? Because I look so Jewish, I get less. And sometimes it's people who don't look Jewish who actually experience anit-Semitism more. A guy tells me that he was about to release his shop to a pack of Lebanese people. And then they realized and they decided they're getting out of the deal. And a therapist who's a Jewish French lady, and her client realized “oh youre Jewish, we're leaving”. And literally like that.

Roxanne: That's ridiculous!

Rabbi Shneur: Yeah, pretty crazy. So my theory is that when you look more Jewish people know who you are and know where you stand and all that. And when people don't know you're Jewish, like come out, they'll say something or backhanded comment to something like that and really hurt you. And you, you kind of see where they are. And they don't even realize who you are and what you represent. Same circumstance sometimes. More, which is interesting.

Roxanne: Also, I've seen like on social media, like an ad for a brand. And people in the comment section being like, don't support this brand. Like they support Israel,

Rabbi Shneur: Yeah, social media is the easiest place for people to just share all these views because they could just hide behind, you know, all these fake profiles and fake everything. It doesn't take any much on us to post a silly comment on social media. My policy is I don’t read any of the comments on social media.

Roxanne: Yeah, there was a girl at my school who was post I don't know, if she still does, I just stopped looking at it. Because I was like, this is like, I don't this is ridiculous. But she just was posting like a lot of stuff on Instagram, about like, just things that weren't true. And it was kind of like, I don't know,me and my friends were worried about it. And there are people who like, responded to her and like, write her whole things about how it wasn't true. But she continued.

Rabbi Shneur: Yeah, yeah. That's how it is social media, especially I think it's good to have these voices out there and making sure that all the narrative is not always better to say, to really convince someone and change their mind through that platform. Well, in general, to convince people out of their opinion, is very hard.

Roxanne: Yeah. Okay. So maybe this next question doesn't apply but, do you have any strategies to combat anti semitism? Or it's not something you have to deal with so much.

Rabbi Shneur: So, interesting, antisemitism for me is a little bit new, because I grew up in South Africa. I even just visited South Africa. You know, South Africa is in the headlines now?

Roxanne: Yeah.

Rabbi Shneur: I was in South Africa just now while they were having the proceedings. This is exactly the period when everything was happening. But in South Africa, you don't feel any anti semitism on the streets. No, even though the government is doing really crazy anti Israel stuff, with the people on the ground you don't feel any anti semitism. Maybe a little protest in Cape Town or something but relatively calm. And Jews are like, you know, you feel like very comfortable. Very welcome by the general populace. Oh, interesting. Whereas in the UK, it was a little bit the other way round. Here the government is very supportive of Israel and as you know, is standing by them and everything. But the general populace people are like, we're nervous and we're gonna feel so comfortable and so safe. So it's been a little interesting thing for me encountering, like the icon of anti semitism as such an issue, which is not something that I really grew up with so much. It's more like in Europe, there's a lot more of an awareness about anti semitism and concern about anti semitism. Where then in South Africa for sure. And, yeah, strategies wise, except for following and being in touch with the community guidelines, and making sure to have visible police, invisible security, because the reality is that's what makes people feel more comfortable to come. Let's say Friday night, this past Friday night, we had services, we had a Friday night dinner. And it was important to have security so that people would see, you know. And did I feel that it was so necessary? I don't know. But it makes people feel more comfortable. And in general, there's definitely you got to be vigilant, you got to be aware coming to different events. So there's just the general I would say awareness that, you know, you got to be more careful, that kind of thing.

Roxanne: Is there anything else you want to add?

Rabbi Shneur: No, not really, like a little bit, just going back to what I was saying before about the Jewish response, which I really think is amazing about how we Jews, we strengthen through these things. And we should connect more with our, who we are and what we stand for. And it's been amazing to see that on the ground help young people are really tuning in to what it means to be Jewish, and much more proud of that identity and much more caring about that identity. As a result of all of this, we should take it from also a place of cherishing what we got, even from a place of goodness, and a place of even when things are good, when times are good then also realizing hey, we got something really special. And value our tradition and value our heritage because it's really something special. And to be also so aware of the care and concern that Jews have for each other around the world, which is really remarkable. That's we really feel like brothers and sisters. And keep that in mind. You know, like even though we might be discouraged, you might be that common Jew, but we really want them and to always be there for each other. And like again, the same thing shouldn't just be common situations of difficulty and sorrow but the key is to remember it and be there for each other even when things are good. Times are good and focus on what really brings us together. Yeah. So don't let the anti Semites define our identity. We embrace identity based on our terms and the antisemites will be the antisemites.

Roxanne: Yeah because if you hide everything and you say, I'm not gonna be a proud Jew, you're just essentially doing what they want and giving in.

Rabbi Shneur: Exactly. There’s not a greater joy for them than when they know that Jews are afraid to walk in London because of what they've done to them. You know, so obviously, we got to be careful we got to be wary but at the same time we got to keep our heads straight and thank God things are not so terrible. And in the UK I was just speaking to someone who was also saying maybe we should be leaving what do you think? And I said, You know what? Things are not at the place. We really need to get hysterical thank God we still okay things yes, there's concerns that we need to make sure that they're they're being addressed and etc, etc. But let's keep things in proportion. And let's not enter a place of like hysteria, which is the worst to the new thing rationally and anything like that.