Aaron: Okay, so first off, I'd love to hear a little bit about your story and how your Jewish identity has evolved up to this point.

Rabbi Brener: Well, I was born in Poland. And then my parents migrated to Peru, where my late father was a rabbi, for 30 years. And when I was 16 years old, my late father shipped me off to the United States to study at Yeshiva University. I'd graduated high school already in Lima, Peru, I became a rabbi, and served in a synagogue in New York City in Queens for 12 years. And then I went to Venezuela for 44 years. And I'm here in Miami already for the past 12 years. Retired.

Aaron: Retired, nice. Perfect. Um, okay. I'm also curious, you know, as, as the Holocaust gets farther and farther back in time, do you have you noticed, you know, a change and how, you know, have you noticed any changes that you think are noteworthy were in the Jewish community, would you say, as the Holocaust gets farther back, you think.

Rabbi Brener: I think that there is much more observance of Jewish traditions today than there was many years ago, I remember when I came to New York City, I used to wear a kippah, around the area of Yeshiva University, but you didn't go anyplace else with a keypad. Nowadays, you can see people all over the place, even though Lately there has become a problem with wearing a kippah for other reasons. But I think there's much more Jewish tradition today than many years ago, all over the world.

Aaron: That's, I guess that's a that's a good positive change, also. But do you think that as we get farther and farther back from the holocaust there could be like negatives of people? Because for our generation, we're kind of one of the last generations that we are going to be able to interact with Holocaust survivors? Do you think that that could have like any negative impact? Or how do you think that that could change things?

Rabbi Brener: Well, I think that the further away we get from the Holocaust, the less we identify with it. However, if we study history, we are aware of what has happened. But then again, there are those that remind us physically today, of what happened, then, as a matter of fact, unheard of. I never thought that would happen again, in Australia in different parts of the world. Hitler didn't finish his job. Who would think that that would happen? Myself, maybe innocently, I thought that after the world would become aware of what really happened to the Holocaust, that would be the death of anti semitism, no more anti semitism? How can civilize men do that? You know, that didn't happen in some remote African Asian country that happened in the middle of Europe, punctured Europe, one of the most cultured places. The Birthplace of hynet, of Beethoven, you know, culture, silence, whatever you have, and nevertheless, it happened. So that should have told me that it can happen again. I thought it wouldn't. But lately, I'm afraid that while History doesn't repeat itself, what happened? The Holocaust? Wasn't the one time event different, a different modality can happen in the future? Yes.

Aaron: Okay. So my next question is, what do you think, you know, I hear you know, from my family and from visiting that, you know, Venezuela had a super, super successful Jewish community for many generations. I guess, what do you think of on that topic of Jewish assimilation? What do you what do you think of that and to secular society?

Rabbi Brener: Well, I think that we have to follow a very narrow path. I myself, am in favor of assimilating into the general culture, learning from it, but never divesting myself of my Jewish traditions. And not everybody can resist that. There are those that try to form islands that are completely separated from the secular world by because they feel that the influence is too great, I am of the opinion that you have to live in the world the way it is. But that means that you have to have deeper roots in Jewish tradition today, than many years ago. But then again, as I say to you, the non Jewish environment is there to remind us that we are Jews, that we are different, you know, Hitler, considered the Jew, anybody who had at least one Jewish grandparent? Well, I think that is still valid today somehow, by non Jews, it seems that anti semitism is a very light sleeper. And suddenly, after what happened on October 7, which should have been an entire affiliation in support of the Jewish community, it has turned the other way around Yeah, in the brutality that happened in October 7, I think even surpassed what the Nazis did. Of course, the numbers weren't the same. There was no Jewish state, then there's a Jewish state now. So things are different. But the hate for the Jew, inexplicable or there are too many explanations. That means there isn't one that is good enough.

Aaron: Okay, so you've also talked about how your journey has taken you to a lot of different places how you were in New York and Peru, originally from Poland. Have you noticed any differences between what diaspora Jews think about Israel? In the United States versus in Latin America?

Rabbi Brener: I think it's different. Well, Latin America is to ample nomenklatur, you know, they're two different countries. It's not all the same. I lived in Peru when I lived in Venezuela to different countries. In Venezuela, you have open doors. In Peru, we didn't have that. There. So like, case system is not quite the same. In Venezuela was extraordinary. Maybe it's the climate of Venezuela, maybe it's the people of Venezuela, the Jewish community, was totally different from the Jewish community in other places. And you can see it here in Miami, where there's an enormous diaspora of Venezuelan Jews, how they maintain themselves United because of what happened in Venezuela all those years. So I don't think it's right to speak about Latin America or the United States. Each country has its own idiosyncrasy, and you cannot really generalize in the United States. I am highly disappointed, because I thought that the United States, I still think is the greatest country in the world, where if you work hard, you can reach all places. Yet, I thought that there was a greater affinity toward the Jew lately, that has been changing, and has to do also with politics. It's a complex issue. But some people in the United States want to become allies, with the left all over the place. They're dividing the world into oppressed and oppressors. And Israel strong. Arabs are weak. So Israel is the oppressor, and the others are the oppressed. We used to be the jew in the world now, the Palestinians are the jew in the world.

Aaron: Yeah. It's interesting. I see. So you talked a little bit about how, you know, in Venezuela, it's like a, it's like, I'm from New York. And it's a huge community. And it doesn't always feel like it's very tight knit. Because a lot of people go in many different directions. And in terms of Israel, there's a lot of divides, because there's, as you talked about, there's the political dynamics here where people want to, they might feel like they're progressive or left leaning politically, and they feel like they have to kind of give in on their position on Israel. And I feel like I've seen with the Venezuelan community with my family and family friends, that people are much more like united and strong. And I think, I don't know, can you speak a little bit on those differences, how that could make an impact on it?

Rabbi Brener: Well, I think that the Jews cannot assimilate that easily into Venezuelan culture, as you can do in American culture. There's difference in many aspects, and then again, we had a very well organized Jewish community You know, everybody was a member of the Jewish community. So obviously, our schools incorporate any Jewish kid that wanted to learn if he didn't have any money, we gave him a scholarship. Israel was foremost for us. Because in Caracas, which is where the majority of the jewish people lived, what was the percentage of Jews of the general population minimal. In New York City, Jews were a quarter of the population. Maybe more. It/ was a Jewish town. So you felt the your tone. So maybe with the ties with Israel, we're not as strongly needed, as in a place like Venezuela. But in Venezuela, you had to contribute to Israel, you couldn't become Bar Mitzvah unless your parents contributed to some fund in Israel, the character is solid was you couldn't get married, you couldn't even die without the care. Now you. So you always had that contact. And we also received many visits. And since it's a small community, we felt much closer to each other. In New York, you can just get lost. And that's it. Because there are so many, you know, it's not the same. However, I repeat, unfortunately, in the United States, things are not the way they were. I'm not saying that they're bad, but they're going in the wrong direction.

Aaron: Yeah, Okay. Could you talk a little bit about, you know, anti semitism in Latin America, and how that may compare to anti semitism in Europe or the United States?

Rabbi Brener: Well, in Latin America, let's each country, as I say, is triggered.

Aaron: Firstly, Venezuela, in

Rabbi Brener: Venezuela. I never felt any anti semitism, or that was there until Chavez came before then I never felt. And in Europe, there is an old tradition of anti semitism. You know, Jews were expelled from every European country, I think, except from Poland, they were except they were expelled from every place. And then they returned again. But in Latin America, that didn't happen at all. And I think that the Jews were received with open arms, much more. So in most of the countries in Latin America. I know from Germany, some went to Bolivia, which is not the most hospitable place, you know, La Paz passes very high, you have to have lungs of iron in order to be able to breath there. And yet there were Jews there because they didn't let him into anyplace else. I once did a wedding in Trinidad, which is an island off the coast of Costa Venezuela. And when I was there, I was not in a good mood. I don't know why I thought place was horrible hot mosquitoes in southern yet, I know that the residuals there. I said once a while Jews would go to Trinidad, because they didn't go anyplace else. That's why. So Jews really migrated to the places where they could. And in Latin America, there is no history, like in Europe, of hateful of hate towards Jews, remember, also Latin America, because they became countries much later, you know, the discovery of the Americas or the union of two places that don't like to speak. Columbus is now an enemy of the people that are in the 16th century. You know, 1492 is when he left, and Peru was conquered in 1635, I think, while Europe is, is as old as anything, so they didn't have time to maybe to develop that much there is not that much of tradition in these places, as there is in Europe. Today, I would say there's much less anti semitism in the different Latin American countries than there is in Europe. Yeah.

Aaron: That makes sense, because there's not as much of the historical. There's there's no historical anti semitism. Okay, um, we touched on this a little bit, but could you talk a little bit of how you think the world has changed for Jews since October 7? And how? Yeah, if you've changed your perspective at all?

Rabbi Brener: Well, I think that many Jews in the United States have woken up to something else. If I'm not mistaken. I'm going to give you a statistical fact that I may be wrong. I think something like 30% of American Jews have ever gone to Israel. No more. And Israel is a country far away from many, many I have assimilated integrated into American alternate American civilization. But since October 7, things have changed suddenly, there is no question that Israel was attacked without any reason by Hamas. Let me tell you something a little bit about Israeli politics. You know, people speak about two state solution. There should be an Arab state Jewish state. Schumer, the senator just said, without that there is no solution to it. He also wants the overthrow of Netanyahu very interesting how the senator of one country wants to influence the politics, internal politics of another country. What would they say if another country would say something about him, Schumer or Biden, that he should be taken out? Well, that's something else. But in 1947, the General Assembly of the United Nations voted to partition the what was then Palestine, what was left of Palestine, because Jordan was already established as trans Jordan, that was part of Palestine originally. So there was only half really and less than half and one margin of the River Jordan to be divided into a Jewish state and an Arab state. What the Jews declare their independence in May of 1948. What did the Arab states do? They tried to invade Israel to actually to destroy the new country that had just established itself. Now, why did the Jews overcome all the other armies? And Jordan had what was called the Jordan Legion very well prepared and Jews didn't have an army really? Why did they overcome? Because of motivation, you know, this was survival, because the alternative to survive was simply to have a knife across your front as it was shown. As we worship. Israel won the war, the what they call the War of Independence, from 1948 to 56, almost 20 years. That was part of Jordan, why didn't they declare an independent state then? Yeah. Okay. You say, Well, they didn't they made a mistake, you know, decisions have consequences. Okay. Then there were I don't know how many attempts of making peace between the two countries between the two peoples and establish a Palestinian state. They didn't, because deep down, and Hamas just says it openly. They don't want to state a long Israel, they want the state instead of Israel. Well, the Jewish people are not ready to do that to commit suicide. Here's another thing you know, we're used to. I used to teach mathematics Bible, you know, you have a problem, you find the solution to some problems. That didn't adventure. We used to have, there was another illness, we'll find the vaccine eventually. There are things maybe that don't have solutions. My own opinion is right now there's no solution to them. Maybe 50 years from now, maybe 20 years from now, right now, there's no such thing. If you have people, the Palestinians, teaching their children, that you put on a belt to the explosives, and go into a restaurant and kill indiscriminately people, you're a hero thereby. And then your family gets a pension. You're not going anywhere. If you depict the Jew as a Satan, impossible, I think they have to change the entire output. We don't like Jews, okay, you don't like, but we live next to you. Let's try to accommodate the best we are. We're both human beings, you have different opinions. I don't want to follow you. But you can't teach your children that that's a Satan that you have externally. That's a cockroach, you have to step on it or something like that. As long as that exists. I don't think there's any possibility at all, especially now, after what happened to Clovis. And remember one thing, Gaza was really independent. They say that Israel controlled everything about it. Well, they didn't want any arms in there. But even with the controls, they built hundreds of miles of tunnels. They sent company rockets that they sent throughout the years to Israel. And Israel went out completely from Gaza. Completely. The few Jews that were there would take it out. They could do whatever they want. They could have become Singapore. They have a tremendous cause it could be you know, those Europeans who grow their summertime wintertime, they have sand and beaches and sun But instead of building themselves, they were doing something else. Well, there are consequences for that, unfortunately, look at what they did at level seven. Of course, I still cannot make peace with the fact that Israel wasn't prepared for it. Well, that's something else. There will have to be some kind of investigation to find out why this is so. But after it happened, you know, taking out babies from the mothers inside, were pregnant. Come on, taking women into the streets and everybody applauding when they took my droid. hostage, what is the word hostage me up? I'm not an expert in the English language. But I thought that has to choose the fall. You're at war, you're in enemy territory, and the enemy instead of killing you, captures you, then you become a house that you were captured. But isn't that what happened? They came in to Israel to sequester to kidnap people. You know, the 10 commandment says, Thou shalt not steal. According to Jewish tradition, that means stealing human beings. This is what pirates used to do. And yet the last resolution of the United Nations Rachel tree the houses, like sideways, you know, that should be that's a crime, a crime against a human being they take away your life. By the way, how do they repay for kidnapping something, somebody has been kidnapped for 10 days been kidnapped for 90 days, those days that he was there who's going to give them back to him? That's not possible. When you see $100, you can get back down with us. When you steal 100 days of life, you can give that back. It's terrible what happened? So I think the Jewish people have come to the conclusion that a two state solution for the time being is not possible in the future. I believe that the Palestinians should be able to roll their own lives. Why not? But I don't want somebody who's next door to me, send me rockets all the time. Yeah.

Aaron: Thanks. Sadly, that's what a lot of people feel. And how do you think that the, you know, the cause of the Palestinians has gotten wrapped up with anti semitism in recent years? Well,

Rabbi Brener: they are the ones that are the biggest promoters have it. And there are countries like Qatar that have billions of dollars without lifting this thing. And to do anything, because they have enormous resources underground, that keep on paying for these people. They're paying for professors in the United States. That's why you have so many reactions in the United States that I never thought you heard. And everybody heard the three presidents of three of the most prestigious colleges say that they couldn't actually say anything against somebody who says, let's kill all the Jews. It depends on the circumstances, oh, kind of nonsense is what apparently, and but, you know, it's not only them, they reflect an atmosphere that has been created in the universities. And that's also being paid in part by a foreign governments that put in programs and so on. It's a complicated world, that Thank God, we have the State of Israel that is independent, and a start something very important. You know, everybody always thought that a Jew is a coward. I do doesn't contribute anything to this world. All he does is exchange, you know, you get me this barbaric partners and so on. But he doesn't produce anything. And the State of Israel is demonstrating something altogether different, you know, the little tomatoes that we eat, those were created in Israel. You know, why is that is an Israeli invention. IBM, other companies have the companies in Israel also not only to sell their products, also for investigation for creation, it is a startup country. It shows that Jewish ingenuity can do. I don't want to speak about the number of Nobel prizes that we have received as Jewish Lee was received. And nobody can blame the Nobel Prize, a group that decides on because they love Jews, because Jews have contributed tremendous. So I think that one should think of what the Jews have done to the land of Israel. You know, I was once and I repeat this a million times on an airplane, I think was a single mode and think I get on something like that today. But many years ago, I did flew from Jerusalem to the north. of Israel. And I could see out, you know, there were windows are very tiny. I think there were three passengers on the I was the only passenger. If I can look on the right hand, the left side, the right side was John Brown, and the left side was Israel all green. You can say that there's rain here. There's no right there. Come on. They're in the same place. Again, it's hot heat and cold there. It depends what human does to nature. Israel, the Jewish people have converted really, Israel into a garden into a very productive land. You have been to Israel, I presume? Yeah. Okay. I've been to Israel a number of times, of course. And it's amazing what the Jewish people have done to the land. The land should be grateful that you wish we were there. Yeah.

Aaron: Thank you so much for answering my questions. I really appreciate it. Okay. And your parents? Yes. Thank you so much. And when we're gonna, like, publish some of the interviews on the on, we're gonna make a website with some of the interviews.

Rabbi Brener: So when, why don't you send me a copy of what you recorded today? Okay.

Aaron: I'll send it Yeah. Thank you so much.

Rabbi Brener: I read it. Well, thank you.

Aaron: Okay, so first off, I'd love to hear a little bit about your story and how your Jewish identity has evolved up to this point.

Rabbi Brener: Well, I was born in Poland. And then my parents migrated to Peru, where my late father was a rabbi, for 30 years. And when I was 16 years old, my late father shipped me off to the United States to study at a Hebrew University. I had graduated high school already in Lima, Peru, I became a rabbi, and served in a synagogue in New York City in Queens for 12 years. And then I went to Venezuela for 44 years. And I'm here in Miami already for the past 12 years. Retired.

Aaron: intact. Nice. Perfect. Okay. I'm also curious, you know, as as the Holocaust gets farther and farther back in time, do you have you noticed, you know, a change and how, you know, have you noticed any changes that you that you think are nowhere they were in the world, in the Jewish community? Would you say, as the Holocaust gets farther back, you think,

Rabbi Brener: I think that there was much more observance of Jewish traditions today than there was many years ago, I remember when I came to New York City, I used to wear a kippah, around the area of Yeshiva University, but you didn't go anyplace else with at pan. Nowadays, you can see people all over the place, even though Lately there has become a problem with wearing a keypad for other reasons. But I think there's much more Jewish tradition today than many years ago, all over the world.

Aaron: That's, I guess that's a that's a good positive change, also. But do you think that as we get farther and farther back from law class, there could be like negatives of people? Because for our generation, we're kind of one of the last generations that we are going to be able to interact with Holocaust survivors? Do you think that that could have like any negative impact? Or how do you think that that could change things?

Rabbi Brener: Well, I think that the further away we get from the Holocaust, the less we identify with it. However, if we study history, we are aware of what has happened. But then again, there are those that remind us physically today of what happened then, as a matter of fact, unheard of. I never thought that would happen again, in Australia in different parts of the world. Hitler didn't finish his job. Who would think that that would happen? Myself, maybe innocently, I thought that after the world would become aware of what really happened to the Holocaust, that would be the death of anti semitism, no more anti semitism on can civilize men do that, you know, that didn't happen in some remote African Asian country that happened in the middle of Europe. Cultured Europe, one of the most cultured places. The Birthplace of hynet of baby holes in culture, science, whatever you have. And nevertheless, it happened. So that should have told me that it can happen again. I thought it wouldn't. But lately, I'm afraid that while History doesn't repeat itself, what happened? The Holocaust? Wasn't the one time event. A different, a different modality can happen in the future.